ST. PAUL - What began as a routine review of the monthly council fees quickly became much more during the Feb. 8 County of St. Paul council meeting, as councillors became immersed in a debate over fair and equitable billing for attendance at conferences.
What spurred the discussion was a difference in fees claimed by councillors who had attended the same annual Alberta Agricultural Service Boards conference in Edmonton Jan. 25 – 27. The question raised by Coun. Darrell Younghans as to why some of the five members of council who attended submitted claims for four days while others charged for three.
At the October 2021 organizational meeting, council approved remuneration of $264 for an out-of-town meeting over 170 km one way. Travel time for overnight events is based on a half day fee each way for up to 340 km distance one way, and one full day for travel over 340 km one way.
Younghans also specifically challenged Coun. Kevin Wirsta as to why he also submitted a claim for supper on the first night when there was a reception provided.
“I see Dale and I are the only two who charged for three nights instead of four. I’m wondering why we are four instead of just the half day for the Tuesday,” Younghans said.
The comment drew an explanation from Wirsta that detailed his travel plans. “We have an agenda to attend the meeting there that night. So, you travel during the day to attend the conference there that night and the next day and the following day,” Wirsta responded, explaining that he ate supper in his room but later attended the welcoming event that evening, which included a guest speaker and a welcome from the minister.
"So, in your opinion, it’s worth $264 for an extra hour and a half or two hours to the taxpayer.” Younghans said of the evening event.
“I’m just going by policy,” Wirsta replied.
“It is not in policy,” Younghans countered, suggesting attending the Tuesday evening welcome session for a couple of hours and charging $264 to do it was excessive. “I think this is the time guys where we can set our tone as government. That’s an extra $1,360 for that extra day …. You keep talking policy, but we are the ones that set policy, we are the ones that set direction. We are the leaders here. We should be able to take and use our discretion and do it wisely.”
Wirsta said the night was part of council business. “I totally agree with you Darrell but there was an agenda there to attend that evening, so we attended,” he said.
At that point, Reeve Glen Ockerman attempted to calm the waters by suggesting both had fair points but what was needed was “some lines of consistency” in how conference fees are handled.
Younghans agreed and pushed for an official decision on the issue. “We all talk about fiscal restraint and setting priorities and responsibilities and we are sitting here as leaders. You know we’ve cut here, we’ve cut there, we’ve frozen employees’ wages and we’re going to put another $200 in our pocket for that,” questioned Younghans. “I would like to put it to a motion – are we three nights or four nights.”
Coun. Maxine Fodness observed that it has been the practice of council in the past to claim the night before the conference sessions start. However, she said there are varying opinions as to how important that first night event of a conference is and whether or not claiming a full meeting rate for one to two hours of networking is appropriate.
“I don’t think we should be charging county ratepayers for an evening of networking …. I don’t think those items add anything,” she said, adding that she would like “to settle this once and for all so that we are consistent. If it means writing it into policy, then so be it.”
Coun. Ross Krekoski, who did not attend the conference, agreed that more defining measures were needed. “There’s always going to be edge cases but I think it does make sense to come up with some criteria, so we don’t have to discuss it at length every time there’s some disagreement about it,” he said.
With a motion on the floor from Younghans that council remuneration be addressed at the Policy Committee level for amendments and clarification, Wirsta offered up the suggestion that “Maybe Darrell wants to do all our timesheets.”
The motion was passed with Younghans then making a second motion stating that councillors who attended the ASB conference to only claim for three days (two days of convention and one day of travel) and he requested a recorded vote.
“There was agenda items for three days and so I realize there may be some discussion on whether the first day was substantive or not, but as a basis for criteria how do we decide in advance or any point in time that this was on the agenda but it’s not substantive enough to call it a meeting – what are we basing it on,” Krekoski said.
While Younghans explained that for the most part the first nights are “for setting the tone” for the next full days of a conference, Wirsta responded with right or wrong, some councillors attend those evening functions beforehand and that should be recognized.
“I’m just saying we are doing our due diligence by being there at those functions and socializing with those people and whether you learn something from it or bring anything home, that’s your own prerogative. Some of us have, that’s all I’m saying,” Wirsta said in further attempting to explain his position.
But when Younghans further challenged Wirsta with the words, “You had a chance in the committee report to talk about the importance of this guest speaker, I heard nothing,” the Reeve shut them down and called the vote.
This second motion was also carried with Ockerman, Younghans, Fodness and Hedrick in favour and Wirsta, Krekoski and Louis Dechaine opposed.
